Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby plbramham » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:51 pm

RE:

“I do have a booklet on the tanks of WW1 with some old b&w photos so I will dig it out and have a look at some of the specs etc. Even though the booklet is modern the images are not (obviously) so do you think it would be ok to post a couple?”

It depends on the age of the images, if over 90 years old you are OK, as copyright expires 90 years after “first publication”, and “publication” does not mean being printed, it mean being “ made available to a third party”. ( Extreme example - if I took a photo of you, you are the first party, and I am the second. Thus if I showed it to someone else, they are the “third party” - thus image is “published”)
There is a lot of rubbish talked about copyright. Too many people think that just because they own a photo, they also own its copyright. Another extreme example – e.g. you buy a postcard of taken of , say Kendal , in 2000. You own the postcard, but not its copyright - see what I mean?

(I wonder if the author of the booklet bothered about copyright before using them?)

Incidentally there is a really excellent WW1 tank book - published by Haynes manuals, ( guess many of us bought their car guides for our “old bangers” in the 1980s etc. !)
It is “Great War Tank Mark IV Owners Workshop Manual” . ISBN 978 0 85733 242 4. Published in 2013 by “Haynes Publishing” ( I believe you can get copies on Amazon).

Regards ,Paul.
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:43 pm

Many of the images are of the tanks in use during the war so they are over 90 years old but I wouldn't be surprised if they are IWM stock and you know how they have copyrighted everything!

The Haynes tank book is still on my to-buy booklist.
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby plbramham » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:52 am

Yes, but strictly speaking the IWM cannot copyright images over 90 years old - see my previous posting re: just owning a print of a photographic image does not mean you own it's copyright.
I often find MY photos from the 1980s etc stamped " copyright Joe Bloggs" etc. NO, just because they bought a print they did not buy the copyright. In fact the copyright does not even belong to me , who took they photo. It belongs to my employer who contracted and paid me to take it,
As I said, there is an awful lot of misconception on this issue. ( Hence why, as a press photographer, I had to obtain qualifications on copyright law)
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:16 pm

plbramham wrote:Yes, but strictly speaking the IWM cannot copyright images over 90 years old - see my previous posting re: just owning a print of a photographic image does not mean you own it's copyright.

In normal circumstances you would think that wouldn't you but the IWM seems to stamp everything ownership so I'm not surprised people find it confusing as to whether or not they can use 90+ year old images (for non-profit obviously) in other websites. It's very handy having your expert knowledge on the subject for clarification, thanks.

The images in the booklet, however, upon closer inspection, don't come from the IWM but instead are from the Tank Museum with the same "all photographs are copyright of....." etc., but if they look like original images of the time depicting tanks in action during WW1 they should be safe to use - yes?

Sometimes though it just isn't worth the risk :|
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby plbramham » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

No risk if over 90 years old.
Plus, even in a tiny remote chance ( say you had an image from 1926) if a problem, it's a civil offence -not criminal one.
i.e How would they look suing ( yes, "suing", "prosecuting" is for criminal offences), a non profit making organisation? Any damages just would not be worth their while, plus their cost of bringing any action, and time accumulating evidence! - It wouldn't happen. Plus it would be thrown out of court fro wasting their time.
Too many of these "collections" claim copyright, which is not theirs,
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:16 pm

That's good to know. Thanks Paul.
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby IanT » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:42 pm

A modern publication containing old photos begs the question whether scanning those photos for further (free) publication contravenes copyright. Although the original images may be at least 90 years old the copies in the publication may be a lot less.
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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:51 pm

IanT wrote:A modern publication containing old photos begs the question whether scanning those photos for further (free) publication contravenes copyright. Although the original images may be at least 90 years old the copies in the publication may be a lot less.

Interesting point Ian. But if a modern publication uses the original images without altering them in any way would they still not come under the "public domain" classification as they are still the original out-of-copyright images and therefore does not contravene copyright? Because there is no copyright to contravene. If they are classed as "out of copyright" or "public domain", anyone can use them, that's how I guess a lot of authors get images of this era in the first place for their books.

Anyway, I have been looking for some public domain images of WW1 Tanks and the best place (and only place I have used for images in the past) is Wikimedia Commons. I tend to use images that are classed with the following: "This artistic work created by the United Kingdom Government is in the public domain.....etc.". I will post more to the gallery and link them here.

This is a Mark I Male Tank on the Somme, 25 September, 1916. Steering was aided by the two large wheels at the rear, however, these were dropped on subsequent models as they were deemed ineffective. More info on image page.

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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:01 pm

A working British prototype tank that the Mark I tanks were based on. It became know as "Mother". It is recognised by its rivets, which are closer together than on production tanks, and the skin was made of boiler-plate. More info on image page.

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Re: Sponsorship of tanks in WW1 from towns and citys

Postby kerchi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:33 pm

A British Mark II tank at the Battle of Arras, 1917. Notice the absence of the wheels, which have now been dropped from Mark II's onwards. More info on image page.

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