Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby yorkie » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:09 am

Hi All,
I recently Aquired this Photograph from a well Known Auction Site. The Sellers Description is as Follows. "A very poignant image of a woman and 2 children with a super imposed image of her deceased[I Imagine]Husband who served in the Lonsdale pals". The publisher/photographer details are,
Fred Tassell of Carlisle.
Can I please ask if it is possible to identify the family ! Also was it the practice during those dreadfull times for familys to have photographs made up like this one with a photo of the family and the deceased Husband/Partner ?. I personally have never heard of this practice before.
Attachments
Lonsdale Pals 001.JPG
User avatar
yorkie
Private
Private
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:17 am

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby spike » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:35 am

Hi,

I would think it would be pretty difficult to identify the family, unless the back of the picture gave any clues(which apart from the Photographers, I presume it doesn't).
I have seen a lot of pictures of Lonsdales and don't recognise the soldier (although most of the pictures are from the local microfiche archives and of only newpaper quality at best)

I have the pictures in my gallery under Cumberland News,Cumberland and Westmorland Gazette, Westmorland Herald and Wigton Advertiser folders eg Londsale Roll of Honour

I have seen pictures where the soldier arranged for a picture to be taken with his family before he left and most soldiers had pictures taken in uniform to leave behind,so it wouldn't be too much of a step for a grieving family to want one last picture made up combining the two.

I have looked through my pictures and (only in my opinion mind you) the soldier resembles this man
Private 15278 William James Bell
B Company 11th Border Regiment
a Hotel Waiter of Cotehill, near Carlisle,age 21.
Son of Elizabeth McGregor Bell, of Edenglen, Cotehill, Carlisle,
and the late James Bell.
Bell_W_J.jpg


Of course he could be another man altogether
as his details dont mention a wife(it depends who filled them in)
and he is young (19 in 1914) for two kids

Based on the face shape and nose that slopes slightly diagonally.
That's all I've got to go on.....

Would you be willing to share the picture with the Lonsdale Web site
I run? Lonsdale Battalion Website
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
User avatar
spike
General
General
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Carlisle

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby yorkie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:22 pm

Hello Spike, I really can`t thank you enough for the comments you made on the postcard I recently Aquired of the "Unknown Lonsdale Pal" Obviousley there is more work I will need to do as regards to trying to find out who this young hero is. By the way the link you gave me called the Lonsdale Roll of Honour is a broken link if you could give me another link to that site I would be most obliged.
As regards putting the the Photo onto your site I would be extremely happy for it to be included do you wish me to upload it or do you want to copy it from this site.
Regards Andy.
User avatar
yorkie
Private
Private
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:17 am

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby kerchi » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:07 pm

yorkie wrote:By the way the link you gave me called the Lonsdale Roll of Honour is a broken link if you could give me another link to that site I would be most obliged.


Andy,

The link should work if you revert back to the old theme we_clearblue in your user control panel under 'board preferences'. The gallery does not link to the forum and vice versa using the new theme. There have been some security issues, which is why the forum has been updated. Sorry for the incovenience.

Regarding the photo, the photo Spike has posted does look remarkably like your unknown man.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

Any problems, comments or questions about the forum? Contact me at: admin@border-regiment-forum.com
User avatar
kerchi
Field-Marshal
Field-Marshal
 
Posts: 2160
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:36 pm
Location: Padfield, Derbyshire

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby plbramham » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:04 pm

It was quite a common practice to have a dead soldiers photograph superimposed onto a family group. Often the only picture the family had was one of the soldier by himself in uniform before leaving home. I have heard of photographers assistants dressing in a uniform to stand with the family for a group picture then it was just a case of only having to superimpose the face. As a photographer, I can tell you that it is not a simple task to accurately combine images(using darkrooms and enlargers remember, not Photoshop!) You don't just have to get the size and the proportions of the superimposed image right, but you also have to match the lighting - can't have the shadows being cast in different directions on different faces on the same picture! If you didn't actually expose one image over the otherin the darkroom with combined printing, it was easier to physically cut out the face and stick it onto the other picture. You could them take a copy photo of the gummed together creation to obtain a negative for repeat prints. You could hide any joins with a bit of brown /black watercolour paints ( I've done that myself to fill in dust marks and scratches)
An amusing story about retouching photographs told to me by an older colleague:
In the 1950s a woman came to him with the only picture she had of her late husband, but he was wearing a trilby. She wanted a picture of him without a hat and asked if the photographer could remove it He said he could retouch it , but which side did her husband part his hair? Her reply : "You'll see when you take his hat off!".
True story I swear!! Paul.
User avatar
plbramham
General
General
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:49 pm
Location: kendal

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby yorkie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:17 pm

It`s the way you tellem, It`s a cracker. Very good Paul it takes all sorts of people.
User avatar
yorkie
Private
Private
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:17 am

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby kerchi » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:12 pm

plbramham wrote:In the 1950s a woman came to him with the only picture she had of her late husband, but he was wearing a trilby. She wanted a picture of him without a hat and asked if the photographer could remove it He said he could retouch it , but which side did her husband part his hair? Her reply : "You'll see when you take his hat off!".
True story I swear!! Paul.

That is brilliant!! An instant classic :D)

Getting back to the image here though, there is something quite disturbing about having your dead husband or partner superimposed, especially when the only image they probably had available of him in uniform is one where he looks quite distant from his family (emotionally, not physically). The two children and wife are looking where the action of the photographer or photographer's assistant is doing something off to the side, yet he is looking towards us without any connection to his family. It looks a little sad really but this was probably a treasured photograph with a lot of history that we will never really know about.

The quality of the image is very well done considering the time it was done.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

Any problems, comments or questions about the forum? Contact me at: admin@border-regiment-forum.com
User avatar
kerchi
Field-Marshal
Field-Marshal
 
Posts: 2160
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:36 pm
Location: Padfield, Derbyshire

Re: Photo Recently Aquired of Lonsdale Pal & Family.

Postby plbramham » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:45 am

Re: Enlargement from family group & Newspaper photo
I've copied and pasted the photos side by side for comparison. It certainly looks like the same guy, but not the same photo. On the newspaper pic he's turned a bit more to his right,and there's a larger "V" of his hair showing below his cap in front of his ear.
I believe on the enlargement from the group picture I can just make out a "cut out" line around his head - especially at the side of the cap , thus proving it could be a later addition,
It might have been better if the photographer had used the newspaper portrait to paste onto the group on which, as Chris pointed out, he is looking straight at the camera, while the family is facing slightly right, so at least he would have been looking the same direction.
Paul
Attachments
11th soldier001.jpg
User avatar
plbramham
General
General
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:49 pm
Location: kendal


Return to 11th Battalion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

About Us

The Border Regiment Forum is a small and friendly community for anyone with an interest in the British regiment throughout its long and colourful history. The forum was set up first and foremost to bring together those with an interest and passion in the Regiment; to ask questions, share stories, provide knowledge and post photos relating to the regiment during the various conflicts and peacetimes it bore witness to.

  -  Cumbria's Museum of Military Life
  -  5th Border Regiment War Grave Project and Roll of Honour
  -  7th Border Regiment War Grave Project and Roll of Honour
  -  8th Border Regiment War Grave Project and Roll of Honour
  -  11th Border Regiment (Lonsdale) War Grave Project