Lonsdale Badges?

Lonsdale Badges?

Postby pelliott » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am

Hello all!

This is my first post so please go easy on me! lol

The reason for this post is to ask a few questions regarding the badges of the 11th.

Now myself and a few friends are strongly considering setting up a ww1 Living History group covering and recreating the 11th Border (Lonsdale) Battalion. We are all seasoned re-enactors and are looking into the detail of this regiment. We hope to attach this group to our ww2 Border Group (VERA) but of course prior to us doing this we need to research and require to ensure we have our information correct. We have 3 of us in full kit already and just need to confirm the badging issue. Then we will be ready!

We have a few questions we would hope you may be able to assist us with regarding the badges of the Battalion.

1) What are the shoulder titles used by the 11th? We have the brass, curved "BORDER" type currently. Is this correct as we have heard of a possible red XI BORDER cloth version?

2) Did the have "collar dogs" during ww1? We dont think that they did except for the Officers.

3) What formation badges did they have, what did they look like and where did they have them on their uniform? We know what the 32nd Div badge looks like but we have no pics of any original cloth patches. Also we cant find anything for the 97th Brigade patches? Any ideas? Did they even exist? if so would anyone know the location of these badges on the uniform and what were their dimensions please?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Paul
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Re: Lonsdale Badges?

Postby spike » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:26 pm

Have you tried asking the Border Regiment Museum?
http://www.cumbriasmuseumofmilitarylife.org/

I have an interest in the Lonsdales, but I'm not a badge or uniform man, I'm afraid.
That tends to be collectors or re-enactors like yourselves....
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: Lonsdale Badges?

Postby plbramham » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:27 pm

Hello, I think this old posting of mine plus the following responses may be of help, just click the link: viewtopic.php?f=135&t=1926&p=4709&hilit=lonsdale+badges#p4709 (two pages, click on bottom "2" to continue)

As far as I aware the 11th Bn used the standard shoulder titles and collar badges, it was just the "dragon" cap badge, instigated by Lord Lonsdale of Lowther Castle, which was different to the other battalions. However, I don't claim to be an expert, just an enthusiast. However ,please respond if you think I may be of further help,
Spike, as usual, is being very modest. I'll promote it even if he doesn't! See his brilliant Lonsdale website: http://www.freewebs.com/granatloch/
Is this any help re: collar badges?: viewtopic.php?f=135&t=1929&p=4712&hilit=collar+badges#p4712
Shoulder titles WW1 and WW2: viewtopic.php?f=135&t=1933&p=4724&hilit=shoulder#p4724

Best Wishes, Paul

P.S I have heard rumours of 11th cloth badges , but I have never, ever seen any. Either they are very rare and not were not used much until later in the war (standard brass usually ones normally instead) or perhaps they were just "binned" as worthless scraps of cloth so have not survived? I reckon you are best with the brass ones.
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Re: Lonsdale Badges?

Postby plbramham » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:08 pm

P.S. I'd never thought of formation badges! Never seen any WW1 ones. As far as I am aware that was a Second World War "thing"?
I have heard that on attacks something like one in ten men had a "shiny" metal disc on his back so artillery spotters could observe their advance for the "creeping barrage" . (That's just a vague recollection from somewhere in my mind though! - maybe not true)

As far as I am aware formation/divisional badges did not exist in WW1? Didn't they just had the regimental insignia? - even just down to battalion "special" cap badges like the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 11th.
See:
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=1924&p=4707&hilit=border+badges#p4707
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=1925&p=4708&hilit=border+badges#p4708

Like I say I'm no expert, just an enthusiast, so you'd need to check with the museum on that one ( though they are very busy at present with the Alama block" move and WW1 centenary enquires),

Regards Paul
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The Border Regiment Forum is a small and friendly community for anyone with an interest in the British regiment throughout its long and colourful history. The forum was set up first and foremost to bring together those with an interest and passion in the Regiment; to ask questions, share stories, provide knowledge and post photos relating to the regiment during the various conflicts and peacetimes it bore witness to.

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