1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby Muchtodo » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:25 am

Chris,

Right, thanks for that, I have now attached them, I hope that you can read these and your thoughts are most welcomed please!

Regards, Jarrod.
Attachments
sws10.jpg
History sheet2
sws3.jpg
History sheet1
In memory of Samuel Sidebotham, Pte, 38926 of the 3rd, 8th and 1st Battalions, The Border Regiment.
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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby kerchi » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:55 am

Jarrod,

I will have a look after work (got to shoot off now) and see how they conflict. If anyone else figures it out please jump in :-\
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby kerchi » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:00 pm

Jarrod,

OK...............I have had a look and there are a couple of things I have thought of (with a little help from a colleague at work). Please bear in mind that I haven't done any research on, or generally looked into, service records before now so the following could be way off even coming close to correct.

At first glance I noticed is that there are some discrepancies, as you mention, in the dates and only two are the same on both sheets, that being 24/5/18 and 23/5/18. I will call the sheet that starts in 1913 sheet 1 and other sheet 2.

Sheet 1 appears to be the main record between them, however, as sheet 2 contains extra dates that are not on sheet 1, it seems that these extra dates provide further details as to where he was between the 24/5/18 and 25/10/18 on sheet 1. The sheet maybe wasn't updated in a while and even though it says he was in France, in reality he had been in France, then gone on leave and then went back to France again in the space of four months, but this isn't shown on sheet 1.

This led to me thinking if such (or similar) documents were kept at regimental, divisional or brigade HQs whilst in France so that such information could be updated regularly on an additional sheet (one for away, one for home) but then this would lead to security risks (if HQs were captured by the enemy they would know soldier's military history) and also it would lead to logistical nightmares (as paper weighs a lot and moving thousands of soldiers documents from place to place just wouldn't work) especially as in WW1 horses were very much the dominant vehicle not the motor.

So, was his military history sheet somehow misplaced at some point by the clerk or clerks (as the handwriting suggests at least two different people adding the information) back in Regimental HQ in the UK, hence the two apparently contradicting sheets trying to work out where he had been and when. Or, every time he went home his records were updated, but haphazardly.

There are too many 'maybes' to be certain. At one point it looked like sheet 1 might not even belong to him, but the second date that appears on both is 23/5/18, so I went back to sheet 1 again.

On sheet 1 he was home for 2 years 203 days between 2/11/15 and 23/5/18; that is very long time be home so unless he was in a severe accident and spent 2 half years recovering, this can't be right. However, sheet 2 says during the time he was supposedly 'home' for 2 half years he was in fact home, then in France and back home again. It looks like these discrepancies are too obvious to be discrepancies (after looking at it a few times). If you look, the dates on sheet 2, to me, have been included in his military history sheet because sheet 1 wasn't accurate enough, most likely because it wasn't updated regularly with 'up-to-date' information.

So, after all that:

1. the first three lines on sheet 2 is showing in more detail where he was on sheet 1 between the dates 2/11/15 - 23/5/18 on line 3 and
2. the last three lines on sheet 2 is showing in more detail where he was on sheet 1 between the dates 24/5/18 - 25/10/18 on line 4


There are a couple of other discrepancies but generally speaking the dates DO MATCH UP and sheet 2 provides an additional and more accurate desciption of where and when he was for those two different dates.

Hope this clears things up a little.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby IanT » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:53 am

The two sheets are from separate documents although the image numbers are close because they were filmed one after the other. The first sheet above is from the second document, being marked on the front page as Duplicate. The second sheet is from the first document, when he attested for the Royal Ordnance Corps with no. 022664 on 5th September 1916. The second document, the duplicate, has the number scored out and replaced with 38926, and the regiment is replaced with Border. In both cases his service starts from 5th September 1916, but he had previously served in the Lancashire Fusiliers (Territorial Force) which may explain the earlier dates.
The documents indicate he was transferred to 3rd Btn Border Regt on 25th January 1918, then the 8th Btn on 25th May 1918 finally 1st Btn on 2nd October 1918.
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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby Muchtodo » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:52 am

Chris and Ian,

That is great stuff, many thanks, I feel much clearer in my understanding now.

I have the War Diaries for the 8th Battalion from May and June 1918, am I able to pop these on the Forum, or offer to email to Forum Members who want them?

Thanks again, it would be nice to give something back!!

Jarrod.
In memory of Samuel Sidebotham, Pte, 38926 of the 3rd, 8th and 1st Battalions, The Border Regiment.
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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby spike » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:56 pm

Have pm'd you Jarrod.....

re the diaries....
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
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Re: 1st Bn War Diary - Oct 1918 - Feb 1919

Postby Muchtodo » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks for all your help, I have now downloaded the 1st Battalion's movements from June 1916 until the end of Hostilities, some really good reading in there!

Kind regards,

Jarrod.
In memory of Samuel Sidebotham, Pte, 38926 of the 3rd, 8th and 1st Battalions, The Border Regiment.
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