2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby pulcinello » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:00 pm

I am trying to find out more about this soldier who died on 9th April 1918. He had been a Private then a Corporal in the King's Own Scottish Borderers and his service number was 16964. I don't know if he would have kept this number when he joined the 8th Battalion Border Regiment as the Medal Card information at the National Archives only shows a service number against his KOSB service. He received the Military Medal on 10th October 1916. The Scottish National War Memorial site has his death as 11th April 1918, and alongside his record is noted "SCOTTISH CASUALTIES EXTRACTED FROM ENGLISH REGIMENTS". I would like to find out more about this, also if he was killed in action or died of wounds. In addition, is it possible to find out what he received the MM for? Finally, if I have the wrong man, is there a list of 8th Battalion Border Regiment soldiers who held the MM and who died in 1918 or who transferred from the KOSB? I could possibly try and work out by a process of elimination any other soldiers who might fit the bill, and match the photograph I have of this soldier which I have attached.
Thank you for any help with any of the questions I have posed.
Attachments
Unidentified soldier d. 1918.JPG
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby spike » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:14 pm

Hi,
I have 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron M.M. listed on my 8th Border War Grave Project(LINK) and listingCAMERON
He is listed as having been killed in action on 9th April 1918, (source CWGC Roll of Honour and SDGW) and
is commemorated on the Ploegsteert Memorial.
The 8th Border were in the Ploegsteert area between the rivers Lys and Douve, when the second phase of the
German 1918 offensive fell upon them and all the men listed were killed around the date of his death. The
9th April was the first day of the assault and one company oif the 8th were cut off completely by the attack.
The odds are Archie cameron was kia on this day and most of the Ploegsteert Memorial 8th Border men were
killed aound this date.
As for his medal, I believe the M.M is a 'ranker' medal, the officer equivalent being M.C., but don't quote me on that
as I'm no medal expert. I think he won his M.M. with the KOSB, so you would be better researching via them for
details. He may have been recommended for his commission because of his actions in winning the M.M.
Officers did not have service numbers, so he will have given it up when he was commissioned and then sent
to a battalion that was short of officers ie the 8th Border, upon completion of his training.

Can I now ask you something? Can I have a copy of your picture for my website as I am trying to collect pictures
of 8th Border Men for the site. I will PM you about this
Spike
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby Fiona1 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:42 am

I'm also researching this soldier and have seen at the link
http://border-regiment-forum.com/wiki/i ... of_the_Lys
that it notes several 8th Border Regt Officer Casualties Missing , one being:
Second-Lieutenant A. Cameron, M.M. (also wounded)
It further notes: The officers listed as missing with the exception of Captain Isbister, were eventually killed in action and are commemorated on the Ploegsteet Memorial

Would anyone be able to tell me whether it is possible to find out where he did die and during what battle ? I have a date 11.4.18 as date of death, which is around the time of the Battle of the Lys, but it seems odd to say ‘they were eventually KIA’ which seems to imply he was found and then continued in battle. Could anyone also explain how he was missing but also wounded and also KIA ?

On Archibald Cameron’s record that he was discharged to a commission to the Border Regt 29/8/17 from the 6th KOSB. According to a newspaper article he went out to France in October following his commission. Would anyone be able to advise where he would have been during Sept/Oct 1917 ? Was there any particular Officer training location he may have been at ?He died 11/4/18 a 2nd Lt 8th Batt Border Regt, having been on leave 3 weeks prior to this. Does anyone have access to any war diaries or any other papers which may make any reference to his arrival to the Battalion and whether he gets mentioned anywhere during the months he was with them, or indeed the circumstance of his various status of wounded/missing/KIA ?.


Many Thanks
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby spike » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:23 pm

What I can tell you Fiona is the Wounded and Missing/ killed in action is not that unusual amongst men who
have no known resting place. My Great Grandfather was listed so at the Somme.

Unless there was a clear identification of the death of a man, corroborated either by his body or many witnesses
they tended to list them firstly as wounded and missing. This status could remain in force anything up to 12-18
months after the event, when they would then be classed as presumed Killed on the date first posted missing.
For example my GGF was posted wounded and missing on July 1st 1916, but his family were not informed
of his presumed death in action on or around 1st July 1916, until 25th August 1917.

The battle of the Lys was a confused affair and part of the series of offensives that nearly broke the allied line
in 1918. this was a time of much fluid movement of lines and many men killed without a known resting place.

The 8th Border were in line between the rivers Douve and Lys on April 9th 1918. The attack penetrated the flanks of the Battalion and cut off A Company, B,C and D Companies managed to retire along the lines Lebizet-Clef de la Belgique-Ooosthove -Doudou.
On the 11th April 1918, a further attack caused a withdrawal via Le Rossignol-Connaught Road-Korte Pyp. In a fierce rearguard action a number of medals were won by the Battalion. On the 13th April 1918 another assault saw a determined stand which cost the 8th Border Regiment dearly and still the retirement continued, holding a position on the Army Line in front of Dranoutre. Relief on the 15th April 1918 where the Battalion were marched to Boeshepe with the 75th Brigade and the remnants were so few in number a composite battalion had to be formed under Lt Colonel J.B. Allsopp.
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby Fiona1 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:01 pm

Thanks for the additional info Spike.
From the newspaper article of the 24 April 1918 it says that Archie's father was informed by telegram the previous day that his son was wounded on the 10the April. There is no mention of missing or dead at that stage. It was only from the mentioned site that I found out he was missing and then from the Medal Card he died 11 April 1918.
I would be interested to know if there are any war diaries for the 8th Border Regt for this particular period just so I can see whether there is any more information, which may clarify things, and in there is could anyone do me a favour and see if 2nd Lt A Cameron gets a mention.
Thanks
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby spike » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:27 pm

Not it appears at the National Archives, Fiona.
The Wiki you refer to is by the forum owner, perhaps you should PM him(Kerchi)
Also, this post on another forum may help if you ask the
2nd poster
8th Border Diaries

The 10th April saw a bombardment of HE and gas on the 8th Border Front and an attack by the Germans in strength
under the cover of mist.
A Company, commanded by Second Lt Allan, were surrounded and cut off and I wonder if Second Lt Cameron and the others listed as missing were amongst the A Company men thus cut off. This may well have been a scenario when he was wounded but cut off and died behind the now enemy lines.
All the listed men missing bar one RAMC man later were listed as died and featured on the Ploegsteert Memorial to the missing.

The book The Border Regiment in the Great War by Hc Wylly, is based on the various battalion war diaries, but does not mention
2nd Lt Cameron over this period.
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby pulcinello » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:40 pm

We are still hoping to find a photo of soldiers of the 8th Border Regiment which might include the man at the top of this string. We think he is who we think he is simply by process of elimination but would very much like to have visual confirmation. Probably we'll never find it but thought it worth another post. He had been with the 6th KOSB as a private before receiving a commission with the 8th Border Reg.
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby spike » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:13 pm

I found in the War Diaries for the 8th Border, a hand written addendum

A Narrative of Operations, 8th Border Regiment 3rd -19th April 1918


Which mentions AB Cameron as being an officer in B Company in the list of 5th April shown in the attachment
Cameron.JPG


Sorry no pictures....
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby pulcinello » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:41 pm

Thanks Spike - he died just 6 days after this. Someone somewhere might one day post a photo of Archie Cameron - I live in hope!
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Re: 2nd Lt. Archie Cameron

Postby pulcinello » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:00 pm

Sale of Archie Cameron's medals 8th December 2016. Just found this link to the sale of Archie's medals with a brief description of his service. I hope they have gone to a good home and I'm contacting the auction house to see if they will forward my photo to the seller of the medals in case they were a member of the family and have other photos. Here's the link to the sale details. I've also copied them into a word file as I suspect the link won't be up for very long.
https://www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogu ... ot_id=5352
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