Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:09 am

Looking for any additional military info on Corporal John Crinyion (Fishmonger b. 1880 Birkenhead d 1942 Birkenhead), Border Regiment 33284 and (Queens Own) Royal West Kent Regiment G/31660.

As there are no surviving WW1 service papers for him, I'm guessing from sequence of Regimental nos in casualty lists that he was with the 8th Btn Border Regiment and then 7th Btn RWK Regiment. Before WW1, John had just done 12 years Short Service (to 1911) with the 2nd Battalion Cheshire regiment 6072 and fought in 2nd Boer War 1900 to 1902 (as Private) and was also posted to East Indies for 4 years.

I have two military photos of John which I will post as soon as I have worked out how! In one photo he is in Border regiment uniform with Corporal stripes. In another he is wearing uniform of RWK Regiment with Sergeant stripes (probably lance Corporal) and 3 lines on left sleeve indicate wounded 3 times. I believe one of these occasions was in 1917. If any one has access to wounded casualty records or war diaries, any further details would be greatly appreciated. I only have attestation/service records for his pre-war short service with the Cheshires and all medal cards info for Boer War and WWI.

John's twin brother my great grandfather James Crinyion was Regimental Sergeant Major (Acting Warrant Officer Class 1) with the Denbigh Hussars Yeomanry (632) and 24th (Denbighshire Yeomanry) Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345170).

Thanks
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby kerchi » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:25 pm

Hi Matt, welcome to the forum.

Can you narrow down the timeframe for the war diary other than 1917, as you can imagine there is a lot of detail in a single year?

Re the image uploads, newly registered users don't have that capability until at least three posts have been made, however, as all new registrations now go through admin, there is less need to use this feature. I have changed this function so you should be able to post images now by clicking on the "upload attachment" tab underneath the text editor box. If it isn't there get back to me and I'll have another look.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:57 am

Thanks.

I only know he was wounded in 1917 from a free search on a paid site with has daily list records of the wounded from WW1. I've been resisting paying for the additional information which would only give me rank, regiment and daily list date because it's a really expensive subscription.

My guess that he was in the 8th Btn Borders may be incorrect. I found out that I guessed wrong about the 7th Btn The Queens Own (RWK) Regiment! From another forum I've found out he actually served with the 6 Bn of The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment. He was listed as wounded once in the Regimental returns and this was noted in The Q.O. Gazette in December 1918, meaning he was probably wounded in the last battle the bttn was involved in at Epehy, end Sept 1918, or in one of the small final skirmishes they encounted in the first couple of weeks of Oct 1918. His substantive rank is given as Corporal. The 6th continued serving in Germany past July 1919 although many of the longer serving "sweats" were sent home for demob by early March.

However, two of his wound stripes will probably relate to his service with the Borders.

As much as it is possible to say, his 31600 Reg number indicates enlistment/transfer to The Queen's Own circa Feb/March 1918. This possibly follows return to front line service following the wound in 1917 (with the Borders).
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:59 am

re the post editor, there was still no attachment facility.

Thanks
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby kerchi » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:16 am

The plot thickens! You have an interesting research project there. Which sources have the regimental casualty lists? Is it "The Times" or something else else, maybe at the National Archives in London? What is the expensive subscription you mention? Is it Ancestry and is there information there you are looking for? I don't have a subscription but forum member Mike does and I am sure he would have a look for you when he sees this thread or if you send him a PM.

Your guess work was pretty good for the RWK Battalion, only being one out but I figure that could make all the difference in time and effort.

To narrow down the Border Regiment service and the action/s he was wounded in we definitely need to be accurate with the Battalion otherwise it could take an incredibly long time to search through several Battalion war diaries, let alone a single year of any of them. I am intrigued though and would like to find out where he was wounded to get those wound stripes. Between Paul, Spike, Mike and Myself, we have seen/worked on war diaries for the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 8th and 11th Battalions so I would be happy to look through any of those for 1917 if you can be certain on Battalion.

I don't really know much about Regimental Number sequences but the 8th Battalion did have a varied range of numbers starting with 1, 2 and 3.

Re the upload tab, should be there now.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:39 am

Thanks.

The research site is called the Genealogist. It launched a list of over 1.3 million 'wounded servicemen' from the First World War a month or so ago. You have to have their most expensive annual subscription to access the wounded lists.

I have attached a photo of John (seated in Border regiment uniform with Corporal stripes) alongside youngest brother George (standing in civies).

Thanks for all your help.

John & George.jpg
John & George.jpg (30.91 KiB) Viewed 6679 times
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:41 am

James & John.jpg
In this later photo he is seated wearing uniform of Queens Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment with Sergeant stripes (probably lance Corporal) next to his twin brother James Crinyion, my great grandfather, who was Regimental Sergeant Major (Acting Warrant Officer Class 1) with the Denbigh Hussars Yeomanry (632) and 24th (Denbighshire Yeomanry) Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345170).
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby hussar1000 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:31 am

The medal rolls on Ancestry confirm 8th Border and 6th RWK. On the same page it shows a number of ex Border men in the same RWK battalion.

I note the medal ribbons and they appear to be QSA and KSA. Have you checked the medal rolls to confirm his clasp entitlement for the QSA?
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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby kerchi » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:29 am

I had a look at the Genealogist and yes it is quite expensive so I can understand your reluctance to get that subscription. I don't know if anyone has a subscription to that site but at least Hussar has confirmed he was in the 8th Borders. Paul, one of our very knowledgeable chaps, transcribed all of the 8th's war diary so if you go here: 8th Battalion forum and click to page 2 and scroll down you will see all of 1917's war diary transcriptions.
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Corporal John Crinyion Border Regiment 33284

Postby MattCrinyion » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:53 am

Thanks for the confirmation Hussar. I believe QSA clasps were Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal.
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