Lonsdale Photographs in the Roll of Honour

Lonsdale Photographs in the Roll of Honour

Postby spike » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:14 pm

I have taken pictures from the Cumberland News and Carlisle Journal microfilm  archives in Carlisle Library, of a  section they had in the papers called Roll Of Honour. They are of men of the Lonsdale Battalion who were wounded missing or killed.
I took the pictures at the same time and cannot tell which paper is which, sorry.....
If anyone would like the copies of the pictures in full (which feature other Border Regiment men) to search for soldiers, then let me know and I'll pass on copies. Meanwhile I shall feature some of the Lonsdales on this topic :-
Alderson_W.jpg
13645 Sgt. William Blundell Alderson
k.i.a. 09/03/1916
Becourt Military Cemetery, Becordel-Becourt, Somme
I.H.14.
Born : Maryport, Cumberland
Enlisted : Workington, Cumberland
Cumberland News : 25th March 1916 Killed in Action- 9th March 1916, buried Becourt Military Cemetery, Becordel Becourt, (I.H.14.)
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby petertheelder » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Hi Spike: Oh to be in Carlisle, if this material is available for other Border Regiment battalions. I'm researching 15122 Sgt Walter Dixon of the 8th Battalion who died in the 75th Bde attack on the Leipzig Salient on July 3rd, 1916 and have yet to find out which Company, etc. he served with. Can you advise me whether the Cumberland News or The Regimental Museum would have source reference material?
Regards, Pete
In memory of 15122 Sgt. Walter Dixon of Kendal, Westmorland, 8th Battalion The Border Regiment. He was last reported "fighting bravely in the German trenches" on the morning of July 3, 1916 as the battalion attacked the Liepzig Salient, east of Authuille on the Somme.
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby kerchi » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Pete,I know this is going to sound like a silly question but have you not already asked the museum directly (or indirectly, possibly via their website) which company he was in? This seems to be the kind of information they would be able to tell you relatively quickly. I know the museum has an extensive archive collection but what they have in detail as actual reference material I do not. They seem to have general archive documents, photos and rolls of honour. The archives building next door, however, does have newspaper archives. The last time I was there though it was for something unrelated to the Border Regiment.Have you not been before?Chris
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby petertheelder » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:10 am

Hi Chris: No I haven't been to the museum. I live in Western Canada roughly 5000 miles away from Carlisle as the various flights would cover, so its a little difficult to shake information loose. For instance, last year a member of the Great War Forum had a summer job at the Regimental Museum, and looked for Walter Dixon reference material but could only find one reference to a medal roll.  Also, my sisters in London contacted the Regimental Museum but were advised that it was unlikely that significant material could be found. This was a couple of years ago when I was starting my searches and had very little data. However, I plan to visit my sisters this summer. I may take a trip up to Carlisle to visit the Castle museum and see some friends in Cockermouth and Brampton in Cumbria. I don't want to impose and ask others to do work for me, but it would be nice to get some guidance or tips from others, such as Spike, who have successfully found good information. If they can advise me on the best way of getting to view records then it would make a trip. Knowing that the Carlisle Library has the Roll of Honour on microfilm was news to me until I saw Spike's post.The beauty of this and other similar forums is that if you have a question, usually someone can answer it and get you pointed in the right direction. Cheers, Pete   
In memory of 15122 Sgt. Walter Dixon of Kendal, Westmorland, 8th Battalion The Border Regiment. He was last reported "fighting bravely in the German trenches" on the morning of July 3, 1916 as the battalion attacked the Liepzig Salient, east of Authuille on the Somme.
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby spike » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:02 pm

I think there may be some confusion here, down to my post I admit, but I shall try to clear it up.
The Cumberland News ran a series of photos of men killed wounded and missing( provided by their relatives by the looks of some of them), in their War News section of the paper. They called this section "Roll Of Honour". It included any men from Carlisle and the surrounding district in all services, where they had a picture of the man concerned. As part of my Lonsdale War Graves Project, I decided to see if I could get as many Lonsdales as I could find and add them to the pages on my website. This involved scanning the newspaper archives over a number of weeks(not yet complete....) armed with a list of Lonsdale Dead and the Nominal Rolls transcribed from the 1915 rolls at the BR Museum. I have been able to identify a number of Lonsdales from these pictures, either from their information given in the paper, the fact that they have Lonsdale caps on, or the description below compared to the information I brought along.
As I could not afford the 50p a go for photocopies I got the library to let me take photographs from the film reader screen and made notes of which numbered picture was which Lonsdale. Then I separated each man and gave him his own frame with info on for my website.
With time my photography and my notation improved, but some of the pictures are not so good, but this is either my fault, or the picture on the microfilm was poor in the first place. Sometimes the pictures improved when passed through Paintshop Pro 7, so this I did
as well as framing them in black, to bring out the best look.
Anyhow, the Cumberland News only appears to have ran the section from  November 1915- April 1917, when it suddenly appears to stop
(advertising revenue being king I suspect).  You could try searching through the War news pages of the newspaper (I have been advised
casualties can appear up to 18 months after the death, especially if the man was listed as missing), both for the pictures and for the surrounding items such as
"Private James Tait (19463) , son of Mr and Mrs Tait of 4 Lawson St. Newtown, is reported to have been wounded on July 1st, but not admitted to hospital. No word having been received from him since, his mother is anxious to receive any information concerning him."

Another paper the Carlisle Journal also featured some pictures in a similar vein, but not as many although I have not finished checking these. The newspaper had to operate under DORA, so the information in them is more general and certainly does not mention battalions, let alone  companies very often.
I would have thought your hope for the information as to which company he was in would have been with the Museum. The Lonsdales were better documented than a lot of other Border Battalions, due to some of the papers being in Lord Lonsdales possession. They do have quite a lot of items though (eg Book of  LNER railwaymen  killed in the Great War) Try to speak to Stuart Eastwood or Tony Goddard...
The Cumbria Archive is next door to the museum and you will need to bring a utility bill(as proof of your home address) in order to use the archives( you don't have to live locally). The people in there are helpful and may be able to point you in the right direction
The library is in the Lanes Shopping centre in town, where they keep the microfilm archive.
It really is a case of search and hope......
Hope that is clearer  :-\
If I do come across anything on 15122 Sgt Walter Dixon I will of course let you know....
CN 049_301216.jpg
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby spike » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:13 pm

Men of the Lonsdale Battalion who were listed in the local newspapers Roll of Honour.

Many of the men were missing or killed but some are wounded and POW's.

This project is to try and obtain war grave pictures of the grave or memorial of all the Lonsdale war dead. I intend to obtain as many pictures as I can manage, of the men of the Lonsdales. The idea is to get a picture of the grave or commemoration on a memorial, which will be available free to those who request it. Also available will be a photo of the cemetery and in some cases the soldier in question. I hope to update this page as part of my Lonsdale War Grave Project . The link on the soldiers name is to his war grave picture , the cemetery links to a view of this and any other photo's are labelled accordingly. I would like to make a request to all readers of this site to help in the Lonsdale War Grave Project. The Lonsdales are buried in France ,Belgium Germany and the UK in the cemeteries listed here:- Cemetery List.

If any readers would like to help please contact me and I have lists of burials by cemetery, with directions and cemetery plans showing the approximate location of graves. If you are going to the Western Front and can take a couple of snaps, or live near one of the UK Cemeteries, please help this project. All I ask is a couple of pictures, and a cemetery view (I realise some cemeteries have long lists and people can't spend too much time taking photos). If you have a relative listed who you may have a photo of, then that would also be very welcome - maybe we can get a grave photo if you have not yet got one. This project could take years, I realise and I intend to try, even if I fail, I hope to get part way to a comprehensive set of pictures. You can help, so please think about it and contact me via email, if you are willing to assist. Finally, if I have missed out any Lonsdales from my list please let me know and I'll put that right as soon as possible.

Lonsdale War Grave Project

Armstrong_S.jpg
13720 Pte. Stanley Armstrong
k.i.a. 09/07/16
Thiepval Memorial
Pier and Face 6A and 7C

Carlisle
Carlisle

Cumberland News : 12th August 1916 Killed in Action- 9th July 1916, commemorated Thiepval Memorial
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LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby kerchi » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:29 pm

Spike,It's nice to the see the Roll of Honour being used for such a great project. Believe me when I say this, it was time comsuming transcribing it all but you are really bringing it to life now and so working on this for years is a real possibility. There have been many times I wish I could help to make this project's goal achiveable in a shorter timeframe. If I didn't live on the south coast I would have spent a great deal of my spare time looking through archives and working on this with you, even to the point of putting my wiki site on hold because this project really does deserve to be completed and when it is, I think it will be the singlemost informative Roll of Honour available of its type anywhere on the internet.I am thinking of adding, with your permission, some of the information about this project on my Rll of Honour wiki page linking directly to your pages and that way broadening the audience so to speak. Let me know if this ok and I will add the relevant information soon.

Once again, superb work on the project  ;D

Chris
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Lonsdale Photographs in the Roll of Honour

Postby kerchi » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:47 pm

Hi Pete,Sorry, didn't realise you were so far away (fly the Canada flag in your profile and I'll know for next time!).
a member of the Great War Forum had a summer job at the Regimental Museum, and looked for Walter Dixon reference material but could only find one reference to a medal roll.  Also, my sisters in London contacted the Regimental Museum but were advised that it was unlikely that significant material could be found
Also sorry to hear you had little luck with information regarding Walter; that must have been somewhat of a setback in your quest. I am surprised there was nothing else other than a medal roll. I really hope you have much better luck if you decide to visit the UK and venture into the realms of the Regimental Museum and archive building. Spike always offers good advice so I too would recommend trying to speak to Tony Goddard or Stewart Eastwood as they are the oracles of Border Regiment information!Chris
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby petertheelder » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:13 am

Hi Spike and Kerchi, Thank you for your replies and comments. I will try the Regimental Museum by snailmail indicating what I have found to date and sending the suggested donation. It may encourage a little deeper or precise search. I also am thinking of treating myself to a visit to Carlisle next time I'm in the UK.
I think Spike's description of his methods shows how time consuming searches can be. Certainly, it illustrates that finding information is sometimes hit and miss, and so rewarding when a new 'hit' is made. Cheers, Pete
In memory of 15122 Sgt. Walter Dixon of Kendal, Westmorland, 8th Battalion The Border Regiment. He was last reported "fighting bravely in the German trenches" on the morning of July 3, 1916 as the battalion attacked the Liepzig Salient, east of Authuille on the Somme.
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Re: Lonsdale Photgraphs in the Roll of Honour

Postby spike » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:33 am

I am thinking of adding, with your permission, some of the information about this project on my Rll of Honour wiki page linking directly to your pages and that way broadening the audience so to speak. Let me know if this ok and I will add the relevant information soon.

Chris, I would be very grateful if you could  add the ROH pages to your Wiki pages the link is -

http://www.freewebs.com/granatloch/spike50.html

Your initial Roll of Honour has been invaluable to me as it has saved me a lot of time and actually gave me the idea of doing the project in the first place. Thank you for your work in transcribing the entries from SDGW. From your work I was able to transfer the text to Excel
and sort it into columns, which could then be sorted alphabetically, by many criteria eg surname, year of death etc.
Once I was able to add the place of burial/commemoration and grave reference from the CWGC site, I really could sort out the men by
Cemetery/ Memorial/Country of burial. This has meant the project could really get underway and many other things have sprung from this
they include google maps of the cemetery locations, gps co-ordinates and POI files, extra columns for other pictures, such as family graves and pictures of the men when available, on the ROH, PDF files for each cemetery( for those without Excel).
All these I have and am willing to share with anyone who can use them, just email/ PM me......
Thank you very much, I hope you realise just how much your work has helped me already.
Peter,
Good luck with your research, but do bear in mind that the WW2 Kew bombing has unfortunately left some pretty appreciable holes in the
documentation from the Great War......
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The Border Regiment Forum is a small and friendly community for anyone with an interest in the British regiment throughout its long and colourful history. The forum was set up first and foremost to bring together those with an interest and passion in the Regiment; to ask questions, share stories, provide knowledge and post photos relating to the regiment during the various conflicts and peacetimes it bore witness to.

  -  Cumbria's Museum of Military Life
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