Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby CockneyTone » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:32 pm

Yorkie,

a lovely article, thanks for sharing it with us!
Regards,
Scottie
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby yorkie » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Hi Scottie, I am really pleased you like it,I felt the same when I found it, But I really would like to know who George is and was he one of the lucky ones to get out of the hell in the trenches. cheers Andy.
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby CockneyTone » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:13 pm

Andy,
would be nice to think he survived and went on to live a rich and full life!
Regards,
Scottie.
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby spike » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:01 pm

Just an observation,

The card has the more traditional spelling of an abbreviation for Sergeant. In the Great War it appears the
older spelling Serjeant, was more popular, abbreviated Sjt. or Serjt.
I know this because I have a bit of a thing for bad spelling and I have not yet been able to spell it on my
sites as anything other than Sergeant, something I will have to correct for accuracy's sake, I now realise.


There was an 8th Border Regiment in WW2 who were "8th (Home Defence) Battalion, the Border Regiment."
and initially composed of former Great war servicemen
8th Battalion Border Regiment in WW2
also
8th(HD) Batttalion Border Regiment

I came across the grave of a man who served in Stanwix Cemetery Carlisle
Name: BURY, GEORGE
Initials: G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Border Regiment
Unit Text: 8th Bn.
Date of Death: 28/09/1940
Service No: 3605332
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Ward 4. Sec. A. Grave 1.
Cemetery: CARLISLE (STANWIX) CEMETERY


I wonder if the badges were the same in both wars and if the card could be WW2.....
SPIKE

LINK - Border Regiment in the Great War Websites
(right click and open in new tab)

In memory of -19455 Private John Farrer,
A Company 11th Border Regiment k.i.a. 1st July 1916
.
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby yorkie » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:06 pm

Hello Spike,
That has rather put the cat amongst the pigeons for me as I bought it from a respected dealer who assured me it was WW1 and charged me a price to reflect that Anyway what will be will be as the saying goes.
I have tried to get a better scan of the second part of this guys signature and have posted them to see if it helps. cheers Andy.
Attachments
XMAS CARD 8TH BORDER KENDAL 003.JPG
XMAS CARD 8TH BORDER KENDAL 001.JPG
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby plbramham » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:42 pm

Hi all, I knew about the WW2 8th Btn Home Defence unit mentioned by Spike, but in my reply I was assuming that it was WW1 because the caption on the original posting read something like "8th Border Regiment ( Kendal)" In WW1 it was the 8th who were most associated with Kendal, wheras in WW2 it was the 4th Btn (Territorials).
Kendal-based D Company of the 4th famously were involved in the Dunkirk rearguard where most became casualties or PoWs at Inchville, hence giving Kendal the name of "The Town of the Missing Men". There is an archive photo I have seen showing the returned PoWs being given a civic reception in the Town Hall on their return from captivity, Paul
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby kerchi » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:12 pm

I spoke to a friend from work who suggested it (the second word) could be an abbreviation for something more like Colour Sergeant.

George. C Sergt- (with the dash under the t - sorry, can't show it with this text formatting)

Obviously the C and S are not very pronounced but to me that looks more like it. The card was most likely sent to a family member or close friend who would know who George is, would probably recognise the handwriting, hence, no surname. So, George. (with a full stop after it) was all that was required. Who here signs their Christmas cards to their family or friends with their full name? I don't. If he signed his full name then maybe the rank would look better before it but somehow this looks better. Maybe he had risen in rank since his last correspondence and that is why he included it.

All inconclusive but interesting all the same. ;-)
In memory of John Bardgett (15309 L/Cpl.), 11th Border Regiment who died 1st July 1916.

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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby IanT » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:58 pm

The new images made me revise what I thought and agree the 'left bracket' is a C.
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby plbramham » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:25 am

[quote="spike"]The card has the more traditional spelling of an abbreviation for Sergeant. In the Great War it appears the
older spelling Serjeant, was more popular, abbreviated Sjt. or Serjt.
I know this because I have a bit of a thing for bad spelling and I have not yet been able to spell it on my
sites as anything other than Sergeant, something I will have to correct for accuracy's sake, I now realise.


Hi Spike,
I've often wondered about the "J" spelling of Sergeant and have never had a conclusive response. I asked military author Paul Reed and even he could not give a definite answer to it's usage, except that it was the old spelling. I have a theory that maybe it is the French spelling perhaps adopted by our regiments during the Napolionic/Peninsular Wars? I don't remember seeing it used pre 1800 for British soldiers. Anyway, just an idea - any thoughts? Paul.
P.S I have noticed examples of both Sergeant and Serjeant being used by the same regiment in the same period - see CWGC WW1 entries.
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Re: Xmas Card , 8th Border Regiment

Postby plbramham » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:57 pm

plbramham wrote:Hi all, I knew about the WW2 8th Btn Home Defence unit mentioned by Spike, but in my reply I was assuming that it was WW1 because the caption on the original posting read something like "8th Border Regiment ( Kendal)" In WW1 it was the 8th who were most associated with Kendal, wheras in WW2 it was the 4th Btn (Territorials).
Kendal-based D Company of the 4th famously were involved in the Dunkirk rearguard where most became casualties or PoWs at Inchville, hence giving Kendal the name of "The Town of the Missing Men". There is an archive photo I have seen showing the returned PoWs being given a civic reception in the Town Hall on their return from captivity, Paul


I knew I had it somewhere! Here is the "Missing Men" photo cutting from The Westmorland Gazette when D Company 4th Btn PoWs were given their civic reception in 1945 . Among them is Pte James Bryan Stilling, whose widow Enid published his wartime diary, photos and documents in a book " "No Mail, No Parcels, No News" which is available from the regimental museum at Carlisle. In civilian life he went on to be a senior manager at K Shoes, and had his portrait painted for the company magazine by Kendal artist John Watton, who was a Border officer also taken prisoner at Inchville. Lt Watton ended up in Colditz where he was known for his sketches of other prisoners. Rumour has it that he assisted in forging documents for escapers, nice idea - but that may be an urban myth?
Regarding "George". I have found no record for a WW2 Colour Sergeant in Kendal, just a Company Sergeant Major " J.Herbert", so that wasn't George (and it was 4th Btn not 8th)
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01border pow001.jpg
Border PoW reception Kendal Town Hall 1945
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The Border Regiment Forum is a small and friendly community for anyone with an interest in the British regiment throughout its long and colourful history. The forum was set up first and foremost to bring together those with an interest and passion in the Regiment; to ask questions, share stories, provide knowledge and post photos relating to the regiment during the various conflicts and peacetimes it bore witness to.

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